Richard's Custom Rifles

If you have a question on smithing a rifle email me. I will try to answer it here.

( THREADING BITS )

These tools are made in Israel and are the best I have ever used. Order them from MSC Industrial Supply Company. Their website is www.mscdirect.com

The pictures are not the greatest. I took them right out of MSCs catalog.

This right hand carbide bit is the one that you will use to grind into all the different shapes you will need. You will use 5 of these right. hand to every left hand. MSCs part number is # 72631203. Buy these suckers about 20 at a time. The 5/16" size is the best.

Threading tool holder.

The above is a right hand threading tool holder. It takes the little insert that has 3 different cutting edges. MSCs part number is #08700023 and the cost was about 56 bucks for the last one I bought.

Threading tool insert.

Above is the insert to be used in the tool holder above. It is available in any TPI you might want. It has 3 cutting edges and will thread many barrel tenons before you have to throw it out. 10 of these will last you many years.

MSCs part number for this insert is # 0869163 and is used for cutting both the 16 TPI and for the 18 TPI. I always used it for the 18 TPI and it worked well.

When you use this threading tool the compound is set parallel with the bedways and the bit is advanced straight in to the work. I always cut 10 thou per pass until I get to 60 thou and then 5 thou for a couple and then try the action for fit. Any further passes I will cut at about 2 thou and sometimes the last pass or 2 will be made at 1 thou. Just try the action for fit after each pass when you get to about 75 thou deep. You want the action to easily thread onto the tenon by hand but to not be too loose a fit.

With this threading bit you can thread right up to the barrel shoulder. I better knock on wood as I never have yet ran the threading bit into a barrel shoulder. Somewhere on this site I show a jig setup to use as a carriage stop when threading. I'll have to see if I can find it and put it here. I do not think I could thread up to a shoulder without it.

I always keep several of the little diamond files and used these to polish the finished threads and then 400 grit wet/dry paper. You could hold a womans stocking up to these finished threads and they would not grab the stocking. Slick as a baby's ass.

Threading stop indicator

This is a very useful gadget you can put together in a few minutes and will be a great help in threading barrel tenons. You can cut threads right up to the shoulder without to much agravation or worry of running into the shoulder.

Some lathes do not have a threading stop built into them so you will find this thing very useful if your lathe is an older lathe

I used about a 4 inch C-clamp and a large dial indicator which I bolted to the clamp. To use it just clamp it to your bedway in the proper place. The carriage wants to just bump into the indicator rod. I set things up so that when the bit is at the place I want to pull out that the indicator needle has made one complete revolution. I just kick out the half-nut lever when the needle comes to zero. With some practice you will be able to stop each pass within a couple of thousandths. I use mine on every barrel I thread.

( MAKE A BUCK CHUCK TO INDICATE MUZZLE END OF BARREL)

The buck chuck is a pretty simple thing. It mounts on the outboard end of lathe spindle and used to indicate the muzzle end of the barrel.

Start with a 3" diameter piece of cold roll steel. Bore the hole to fit nicely over the end of your spindle. Drill and tap threads for four opposed 5/16" steel set screws which will hold the chuck on the spindle. Set screws could be anywhere from 1/4" to 3/8" .

Drill and tap four threads for four opposed 3/8" bolts. Use nylon or brass bolts so as to not mar the barrel. Just remember that the buck chuck wants to be pretty thick so it will not spring or distort if you use too much pressure on the bolts.

For really short barrels such as bench rest barrels usually finished around 20-21" you can drill and tap four opposed 1/4" holes in the end of the spindle itself for indicating the muzzle end of these short barrels.

If you are making a bolt action pistol barrel, buy a 28" blank and set it up the same as a rifle barrel and do the chamber end of the barrel first. You can then cut the barrel to length and turn it around in the lathe and using a bushing about 2" in length indicate the muzzle as close as possible for crowning. It will not matter one whit if the chamber end which is inside the spindle is wobbling some. Cut a 90 degree crown as if you cut a 11 degree crown it will be out some.

( A FEW TIPS ON CUTTING A PRECISION CHAMBER)

If you are using a steady rest for barrel threading and chambering STOP and throw the thing away or use it for a boat anchor and start indicating BOTH ends of your barrels thru the headstock. No one can do a precision job with the steady rest. ( They might swear they can but don't believe them)

Blowing the chips thru the barrel after each 50 thou cut with the reamer will not in any way injure the bore of the barrel. These chips of which few get blown thru the barrel are soft as cotton as they are so thin. Never cut more than 50 thou per pass with the reamer if you want a nice chamber. Never use a mill end or drill bit to remove the bulk of the material from the chamber before cutting the chamber with the reamer. Just remember......The finish reamer will follow whatever hole there is in the barrel. That is why reamers are made with a pilot or bushing that can be fitted to the specific bore diameter so that they will follow the bore as closely as possible. I never in my life even used a roughing reamer. If you have roughing reamers give them to your worst friend. If you have no-go gauges, give them to the same fellow or else get them out of the tray or box that hold the go-gauges. Once you mistakenly headspace a barrel on a no-go you will be greatly pissed off.

I clean my reamers after each pass in mineral spirits. I have 2 plastic jars sitting on the back of my lathe. I call one the dirty and the other the clean. When the reamer is brought out of the bore after a pass most of the shavings will be on it or else fall onto the cross slide. I dip the reamer in the "dirty" and swish it around which removes nearly all of the shavings, I then swish the reamer around in the "clean" which cleans 99 percent of whatever is left. To remove that other 1 percent I hold the reamer tightly so as not to drop it and I flip it just like Mom used to flip the thermometer to get the mercury down. A couple of flips usually does the job but I will have a close look. If there is a shaving stuck under the pilot or bushing I will hit it once or twice with the air hose which is hanging within arms reach. Now I am ready to make another 50 thou pass. When the "dirty" jar fills to about half full with shavings, it then is dumped and the "clean" becomes the "dirty" and I make up a new "clean" jar.

Sometimes a barrel feels like it has hard spots and the reamer will jerk in your hand or make squeaking sounds. Do not cut 50 thou on this pass. Cut maybe 20 thou for a couple passes and usually the hard spots or whatever it is will go away. If a reamer continues to squeak it may be in need of a re-sharp. When a reamer is dull it becomes harder to hold in the Bald Eagle holder which has a short handle.

If for some reason you have a reamer that has not been made properly and it is cutting a chamber with flat sides you can usually straighten this condition up by wrapping wax paper around the reamer and making little passes until you have a round chamber again. If you have a reamer that does this, send it back for a re-sharp.

If you ever break a reamer it will 99 times out of a hundred be the fault of the reamer maker and will break the first time you use it. Send it back for a replacement.

In all the years I have been building rifles I have never dropped a reamer, actions, bolts & barrels, yes, but never a reamer...........knock on wood............

A reamer will cut 25 chambers or more easily if cared for, especially smaller reamers. If you get a new reamer and it grabs the barrel so hard that you can hardly hold it with a Bald Eagle holder send that sum bitch back too. It ain't made right.

A 30-338 Lapua chamber is much harder to cut than a wee small one. These big reamers have to be perfectly made in order to easily cut a chamber. I consider the Bald Eagle floating reamer hold to be the best available. It has a short handle which sometimes will keep you out of trouble as if it get caught in the chamber the handle will slip out of your hand and not damage something. It also give you a good feel of what is going on inside the chamber while it is being cut. Any kind of reamer holder that goes in the tailstock gives you no feel at all. Half of running a lathe is learning by the feel what is going on. Even with your hands on the knobs and levers you have a feel and you will learn this after running your lathe for awhile.

Remember that a reamer will grab some on the rifling until the very end of the neck is starting to be cut, then the grabbing will stop so go slow while cutting the throat.

Dave Kiff make some of the best reamers available, is a world of knowledge and is a fine fellow to boot. He will always have time to answer your questions. If you have dreamed up some kind of crazy wildcat, give Dave a call for his input. He has been there, done that.

If you want to build rifles, learn to think out of the box.

If you have a question, email me or buy my metal working video, a wealth of knowledge for 24 bucks.

( Bedding )

Good Morning Richard,

I found information on your videos at the Long Range Hunting OnLine Magazine by accident and the individual could not praise you enough so I decided that I needed your Metal working video too. On a different note, I am considering buying a lathe but I have never run one, how difficult are they to operate and will your video be enough instruction to teach me how to operate it?

. The lathe will be easy to learn. You do not need to know everything it will do in the beginning, just the setups to do action and barrel work. When you buy the lathe just fool with it for awhile until you learn what this lever does and what that switch does. After you feel good about just running the lathe with no work in it you can start simple turning on scrap metal. I am no Einstein but in three days I was cutting threads and you can too. Learn to be very careful around the chuck as it can bite you. I never got seriously hurt but on a few occasions did get skint knuckles which is bound to happen as you are working so close to the chuck all the time. I did buy a couple of instruction books but soon discarded them as they went off on every tangent you could think of teaching many many things a rifle smith has no need to learn.

Barrel steel is so soft that you can carve off a piece with a sharp pocket knife. If you buy some stainless steel to practice on from a steel supply house it will in all probability be very hard steel and much more difficult to machine. Call Kreiger or Bartlien and ask to purchase a few damages or worthless barrels that did not turn out for them and practice on these.

Do not get a lathe that is too big. For rifle work you want a 14 x 40 lathe with at least a 1.400" inside diameter on the spindle bore so that you can do all your barrel work with the barrel through the head stock with the muzzle end held in a little chuck that you will make yourself. The head stock or spindle needs to be short so that a short barrel will be out of the chuck jaws about 3" and the muzzle out of the outboard end a couple of inches.

I had a Victor 14 x 40 and it was perfect for barrel work. When I bought mine I think it was around 6 grand. Do not know what it would be now. At one time I had a small grizzly 14 x 40 lathe and it was about as good as anything else. It was under powered with a 2 horse motor. The Victor had a 5 HP, 3 phase motor as did my mill. 3-phase power was too expensive to have installed so I purchased a 3 phase converter at around a 1000 bucks and it worked perfect. About the 10th year I had it I had to have the bearings replaced at a cost of around 200 bucks but it ran all day every day for those 10 years.

The first thing you want to do is to throw away the steady rest as you never want to do barrel work with the muzzle held in the chuck and the breech end in a steady rest.

ALWAYS remove the chuck key before turning on the lathe. There is a spring kit you can install on the key if you have trouble remembering to remove the key.

Overhead light and LOTS of it will greatly help you in the operation of the lathe and doing a better job so don't be cheap, buy a few more florescent lights. Same goes for the mill. Things look very different when the light is different on each side of what you are looking at.

Keep the lathe brake in good repair. It will speed up your work by stopping the lathe from turning quickly.

You will know you are getting good when you can chamber and fit up a barrel in 3 hours or less.

Save all actions to be blueprinted at the same time as it will save you much time in the setups.

I keep an oil can with cutting oil on the lathe and the only time I use cutting oil is when I am threading or cutting the lug shoulders when truing an action. Turning the tenon down does not require the use of cutting oil nor does crowning. Barrel steel is very soft and good carbide bits are very sharp.

Touch up your cutting bits often as there is a big difference in how they cut. Learn how to grind your carbide bits the shape you need them to be to get the job done. Get more quick change tool holders so that you can have one for each different shaped bit you use and use that bit for just the one cut it was ground for.

Get a green wheel for grinding your carbide cutting bits and grind nothing else on it.

I am looking at building a 30-338 lapua improved, capable of shooting the lighter bullets at high velocities. You are the only person that I can find that has done this, and for that matter, is even interested in larger caliber light weight bullets. I do realize that the heavy bullets are better for long range but I usually don't shoot over 6-8 hundred yards. I hate to bother you, as you have stopped building but I was hoping that you could give me some insight/advice about the best way to set this rifle up. Such as what twist rate would be best for a 130 grain Barnes tsx, would this twist still allow me to be able to stabilize, say a 150 - 168 grain bullet? Again, sorry to bother you with all of the questions. any help/ advice that you could give me would be fantastic.

A twist rate of 1-15 will allow the 125 Nosler Ballistic Tip to be shot around 4300 fps. The Barnes 130 can go a little faster. The 150 grain will stabilize ok if slowed down some. This velocity is very hard on a barrel and I found that if the twist rate was change to about 1-18 that a little more barrel life could be had. I never did try the 150s in the 18 tw. but I believe they would do ok. One would just have to try them at different velocities.

At 4300 fps you can expect maybe 5-600 rounds out of a good Krieger or Bartlien barrel. This setup shoots like a laser and is very accurate at 6-700 yards and does pretty darn good at a thousand. You can see a huge vapor trail all the way to the target and is the flattest vapor trail I ever witnessed. If I remember correctly the come ups at one thousand yards is about 14 minutes which is unheard of and a record in itself. Just remember, each shot down the barrel will cost about sixty cents in barrel life.

Groundhogs under 300 yards are vaporized and nothing can be found of a Gopher or Prairie Dog shot with this cartridge.

I forgot to tell you that I live in northwest Ohio, mostly flat with a few rolling hills. That is why I need to be concerned with bullet bounce. The .30/.338 that you have advertised on your website for one of your former customers really peaked my interest, but I do not know if it can shoot hot enough to explode on impact. Just a thought.

I built several 30-338s with a 15 to 18 twist barrel to stabilize 125 to 150 grain bullets. This combination behaves just like a grown up big Daddy 22-250 shooting 40 grain bullets. At the speeds the 125s come out the barrel they will blow up on impact with the first thing they touch. No fear over bullets coming up and going over into the next county. The 30-338 Lapua with a 18 twist barrel shooting the Nosler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip bullet at around 4350 FPS is the ultimate long range varmint rifle. Hard on barrels, so do not waste shots. You might get 500 rds from the barrel before it goes south. Each shot will cost you about 60 cents of barrel life.

I was fortunate to be over at a friend’s house watching a reloading video you made. I was very interested in the tool you used to polish brass with. You said you made it from a scrap piece of brass and some other parts to hold rifle brass while you polish the casings. I was interested if you had another drill attachment made out of inexpensive material that you would sell or would it be possible to email me or post more detail pictures so that I may be able to make the tool?

The chuck came with a K&M neck turning tool. I merely made a large brass ring which I press fitted over it so I could open and shut it by hand instead of a wrench as they intended. Works great.

Thanks for the compliments. The spider is pretty simple. the thickness of the walls can be about 3/4'" to 1 " doesn't matter. Length is about 3". Make the split bushing first with a 1.360" bore. 1/4" thick is fine. then bore the spider to accept this bushing. Just a lot of machining but easy and simple.

Buy the mandrel from Dave Kiff at Pacific tool & Gauge. Get it with the 2 tapered bushings. I think they are about .700" on small end and about .705 on large end. Dave will know what you need.

You need two small indicators to dial in the mandrel. The bushings are tapered so be sure to put the front bushing in with the taper towards the rear of the action as you will want to remove the mandrel first and then use a wooden dowel to reach in from the outboard end of the spindle and knock out the front bushing so the lug shoulders can be cut.

Be careful when cutting the lugs and do not cut into the side of the action. You will learn to mark the cross slide dial where you want to stop cutting. Never cut more that about 2 thou in the 1st pass. If you need to make another pass then another 2 thou ought to do it. Run the lathe about 1400 rpm and make the cut very slowly. Always remember that the faster the lathe is running and the slower you make the cut will always give you the smoothest cut. If you make the cut properly there will be no need to lap the lugs later.

Now cut the face of the receiver ring, again a couple of thou will usually do the job. Remove about 80 thou of the threads at the front of the action. This will give you a little room in the advent you do not get the threads cut close enough to the barrel shoulder. All custom action have the threads relieved about 100 thou.

Buy a GOOD 1 1'16" tap and clean up the threads and also to remove the taper that Remington used to put in their actions. The tap will remove rust and the locking compound Remington used to lock the barrel to the action. When you fit up a barrel never use any type of lock-tite or locking compound as the barrel will never come off if tightened properly. My metal working video will show you how much torque to put on the action.

Good smithing lathes tend to be on the small side so as to indicate a barrel thru the spindle bore so you need a spindle bore of at least 1.400" and short as possible. I found the Victor 1540 perfect. Only drawback was having to change gears when going from 16 TPI to 18 TPI but really not a problem, just took up 5 minutes of my time. Those 2 threads are about the only ones you need for rifle work as long as you stay with customs and Remington's. Mausers are 12 and the CZ rim fires are about 19.5 in metric but I always cut those on 20 TPI nor metric and they work fine. Just saves cutting the metric 19.9 and the set-up. You should be able to buy a Victor for around 6000 bucks. Get the digital readout for it.

I ought not to tell you about a little experiment I did once as it might spark up a big controversy among those that knows everything and those innocent of ever truing an action, but here goes.

I once put together a nice little PPC on a Remington 700 action and a Krieger barrel. I blueprinted the action and trued up the bolt and chambered the barrel to the 6 PPC and took it to the range and shot about 10 five shot groups with no group larger than about 1/4" at 100 yards. I took the rifle back to the shop and removed the barrel, put the action back in the spider and indicated the action so that there was an angle which would make one lug considerable shorter than the other. When I put the barrel back on I found that one lug made no contact what so ever. Putting the rifle back together I shot 10 more groups. The group size did not change or get any larger. I then went back, removed the barrel and cut the receiver face 2 thou out of true and then back to the bench where I again shot 10 more groups without changing the group size. I then re-crowned the barrel with an 11 degree crown. Again group size did not change. (The previous crown was the 90 degree crown which I put on every rifle I ever built).

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm, I began to wonder what it was going to take to mess up the accuracy in this rifle. I put the barrel in the power hacksaw and sawed about 1'4" off the muzzle at a pretty good angle. I did really smooth up the new "crown" with a very fine file. Back to the bench and a few more groups I found the angled crown did nothing to group size but did change point of impact considerable. Go figure. I am not saying that a Remington action does not need to be blueprinted or needs to be blueprinted. I trued every Remington action that went thru my shop as truing the action certainly is not going to hinder accuracy in any way.

My observations over the years has led me to believe that accuracy starts with ( 1 ) a good barrel that is indicated ON BOTH ENDS to within a few ten thou through the headstock. ( TWO) The chamber is cut with a good sharp mim. dim. reamer with a crush fit or minus zero headspace. (this might require you to bump shoulders on that new brass) ( three ) Hand loads that are as perfect as they can be made. ( four ) the rifle is stress-free pillar bedded into a good stiff wood stock. ( five ) there is a decent scope and mount system. (six ) A 1/2 ounce trigger. ( seven ) The fellow pulling the trigger is good at it and know what wind and gravity does to a bullet...........pretty simple....huh? The action only wants to be one that a Jewel trigger can be installed on and is very conducive to a great bedding job.

A great rifle will shoot about anything you put in it and will shoot right out of the gate.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The recoil lug should not touch ANYWHERE except on the rear surface. The rest of the action should be touching the devcon every where. remove enough wood so you can have a little devcon bedding under the entire action. A high spot in the wood that touched the metal may cause stress. You want the barreled action to touch ONLY at the tang and on the tape you wrap around the barrel near the end of the forearm. The video STRESS FREE PILLAR BEDDING will show you exactly how the work is done in a way that is easily understood. Thanks for your order.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Click Chart for Bob Parkers 275 grain bullet. Do not use a wad or sabot of any kind, just the bullet over the powder.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Put the stem for the swager in your RCBS press and screw the swager down to the ring. Push the Parker bullets through it once. They are then size to fit the bore of your rifle.

To load; put in 78 grains of IMR 4198 powder and then fit the naked bullet into the bore. Set the powder funnel/ rod guide on the bullet and push it down until the funnel sits on the muzzle. Insert the ramrod thru the hole in the funnel and seat the bullet firmly against the powder. Put in a primer and you are ready to shoot.

I always load my rifle right away after firing as if it sits for a while the moister in the air does something to the powder fouling in the bore and makes it harder to seat the bullet.

I always reload immediately unless I know I am going to clean the bore when I get home. Sometimes my rifle will sit for months with a charge in it.

Clean with TIGHT patches and JB Paste or Flitz (available at hardware stores) I never remove the breech plug to clean. Just fire a couple of primers to clean out anything you might have left in there. The breech plug has not been out of my rifle for 2 years.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ask for a 45-70 barrel which has 1-20 tw., and a .450 bore and .458 groove. Krieger will make it in several different contours. I prefer the # 6 Bull sporter or the # 19 Hunter.

Run each bullet thru the swager once. If you want them to be slightly easier to load, then run them thru the swager twice or more. The tighter the fit to bore the more accurate they are.

The bolt will close fairly hard on the primer holders. The bolt being hard to close will not affect accuracy. The rifle should hold less than a minute of angle on out past 400 yds and plenty good enough for Deer past 500 yards. The bullets are very explosive under 300 yards. Always try for a lung shot. Past 300 the bullets have slowed down to conventional muzzleloader speeds and will then flatten out to about the dia. of a two-bit piece and plow on thru.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This bullet is slightly oversize for the bore of your Krieger barrel. If I made you a swager for your rifle to swage/resize Bobs 275 grain bullet it may not resize the new 300 grain bullet in one pass. Just run the bullet thru the swager I made you until you get the fit you want. Each pass will resize the bullet smaller.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bob Parker has designed and made a new bullet for our smokeless powder muzzle loaders. It is a 325 grain with a high BC. It is designed for big game. This bullet is about 20” flatter shooting at 500 yards than the 275 gr. And is grouping around 3” at that distance in my muzzle loaders.

This bullet should be shot using the wonder wad over the powder. Reduce the powder charge to 73 grs. Of IMR 4198 for a vel of about 2800 fps. I have shot Deer at over 500 yards with this bullet and had them drop in their tracks.

This is the most accurate bullet you can get for the smokeless powder muzzle loaders. It also will hold together for big game. The 275 Parker we have been shooting is quite explosive under 300 yards.

Bob has made a new bullet that is perfect for big game. It is a 300 grain bullet. I have not tried it as I like the 325s he has been making but I hear good things from some of the fellows that are using it.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Good luck on the ML. Most important part of it is the primer holders. As the primer holder becomes part of the head spacing they all want to measure the same from the outside where the primer goes in to the inside where the flash hole is. I have found that I can use any .308 size brass (used or new ). I cut them to about .600" in length. I made a collet to hold them in the 3-jaw chuck. I then put my 5/16” mill end in a tool holder on my compound and a stop on the carriage and go in and cut them all to within a thou and a half. I then fit one over a nipple that is screwed into the breech plug and measure it and make a go gauge exactly that length. When I bore the hole for the breech plug I go in maybe five thou too much. This way I can keep trying the primer holder and closing the bolt on it til I get about 8 to 12 lbs pressure to close the bolt on the primer holder. Just trim off a thou at a time from the shoulder on the barrel and screw the action back on and try the bolt on a primer holder. Don't cut too much at a time or you will go too far and will have to go back in with the 9/16” mill end and deepen the hole for the breech plug and start all over.

The bolt needs to close very hard on the primer holder to prevent blowback. I always adjust my headspace so that it requires about ten pounds pressure to close the bolt. Not so tight that you have to slap the bolt closed with your hand but tight. If a nipple burns out in less than one hundred rounds then you know you don’t have enough pressure to close the bolt . I have been using the same nipple for nearly 200 rounds and its still going great, no blowback

I have found that I can use the same nipple for a very long time without burning a cut across ( Blowback ) it by using primer holders that are tight enough when the bolt is closed. It is a great pleasure to be able to fire the rifle without ANY blowback at all.

Do not use a wonderwad with the 275 grain bullet. Do use a wonderwad with the Parker 325 grain bullet.

Good luck with your muzzleloader. It will be the most accurate and hardest hitting ML you have shot.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Mr. Franklin,

I have received my Krieger barrel, it is 0.750" at the muzzle. I would like to put a muzzle brake on it. Harrell's Precision has said that a 5/8-32 thread would be safe with the bore diameter of 0.458". Do you agree with this? I believe this is 0.063" from the minor diameter of the thread to the bore on each side of the barrel. I want to see what thread you were using when installing a brake on the #19 contour barrels. Thanks.

Jonathan

I have never put a brake on a muzzleloader nor would I. You are on your own there. It probably would go flying very soon after you started shooting the rifle, not to mention the increased difficulty in loading the muzzleloader. Last but not least, a brake will wreck your hearing. I never had any use for one and never recommended one. I have installed a few hundred but only because the owner could not be talked out of it.

Lee sells bullets sizing dies in .452" and .454". Would either of those be a good sizing die for the application instead of making the die. Second question, what Redding 6mm die did you use for making the sizer on the video (6mm Rem?). Thanks again.

Jonathan

Yes, I use that die to make the sizer/swager die. I do not know if the ones you mention would work or not. It is extremely important that the bullet fits the bore perfectly. Too tight and you cannot easily push it down the bore, too loose and it will not stay tight against the powder.